Drum & bass jungle means many different things to many different people, but at its most deliciously conceptual, it is most definitely a massive card carrying nerd, obsessed with tech, sci-fi, space and the capabilities of the future.
Musically, aesthetically, culturally; the evidence is abundant. The endless Blade Runner references, names like Total Science, Optical, Matrix and sonic textures and ideas that are intended to hit like no other, created by pushing and manipulating technology. The list goes on.
For many of us, this techy allure was our entry point – a hint that this scene is so much more than just a style of music and much more of a mindset. It’s what hooked a young Ricky Law back as a teenager in the late 90s / early 2000s and, as we learn in this interview, it’s a major factor in his drive to this day.
Once again the evidence is staring us right in the face: the UK producer’s latest EP is entitled Holographic Principle Vol 2 and in case that’s not quite nerdy enough, read on for his views on AI, sci-fi and the never-ending pursuit of the craft.
Better yet, listen to his edition of our 1 More Mix series while you read. A very personal showcase of his own productions and Repertoire releases, as you might expect, there’s a strong sense of tech, sci-fi, space and all kinds of futurist capabilities. Get to know:
I looked up the holographic principle to understand where you’re coming from… “The holographic principle is a property of string theories and a supposed property of quantum gravity that states that the description of a volume of space can be thought of as encoded on a lower-dimensional boundary to the region — such as a light-like boundary like a gravitational horizon.” Help me out here because my mind is a bit blown!
Haha okay this comes from two things. First of all, the Holographic Principle sounds cool doesn’t it? I’m not from science particularly, but I am quite interested in sci-fi and I’ve watched a few things around the idea that holographic projection and how the universe may not be 3D as we know it and it’s some sort of projection that ties into other alternative reality theories.I just find it very interesting and pretty mind-blowing. It’s one of those things, when they run all the equations, that they can’t disprove as an option.
Is it similar to the idea that there is no actual shared reality because everything is subjective to our own interpretation.
That sort of thing, yeah. It’s a projection of how we see the world. In the same way we all see colours. It’s all just light at different frequencies right? Every other animal sees them very differently.
Yeah! This type of stuff turns my brain inside out and reminds me how uneducated / unintelligent I am!
Haha same here. But you get it – it’s the idea of how there’s one sense or idea of reality and then there’s our own individual senses of reality. And it sounds cool. Drum & bass has always had an obsession with sci-fi and I’m no different!
Haha. What is it about sci-fi and D&B? Why, from your perspective, do you think that link is so strong?
It was always regarded as a very cutting edge genre in the early/mid 90s and all those pioneers making those tunes had grown up on films like Terminator and Blade Runner which lent huge sound palettes to the genre as it was developing. Then moving into the 90s when a lot of us grew up with films like The Matrix and I feel like there was a shared sense of idealistic futurism. We were going into a new millennium, we were very excited about technology. It was all very hopeful wasn’t it?
Yeah it’s a very different perception of the future now isn’t it? When I think about how we envision the future, a lot of it is through satire now. Like Black Mirror for instance.
Yeah 100%. In 99/2000 I was 14/15 and I remember a palpable sense of optimism for the future. Pre-9/11 things felt like there was a positive feeling for the future. I don’t think we feel that now do we?
No I don’t think we do. To tie this back to your own journey as an artist and as a fan and devotee of drum & bass, that feeling of futurism and optimism of the mid 90s is celebrated in your blog Drumtrip. That, certainly in terms of my first real encounters of you, is where things started to develop for you, right?
I actually started Repertoire before Drumtrip. I started it in 2009 but it fell through as quickly as I started it because the distribution folded within months. We had a few releases and that was that and I got into the Drumtrip thing. It was an idea for me to prove my writing skills for my job at the time and learn about WordPress and blogging and such. It seemed like a cool way to involve my passion and my thoughts about all these old jungle records and learn new things and develop myself.
Do you write for a living? What’s your job?
I work in marketing. Over the years I’ve moved more towards management but I used to write a lot of sales copy. Everything I’ve learnt about writing has been on the job and through colleagues.
Doing your 10,000 hours!
And doing Chat GPT too. That’s such an incredible time saver. I know there’s a lot of negativity surrounding it, but in terms of how I use it for my job, I find it very very helpful.
This is such a massive conversation and a scary one in many ways. Especially as you mentioned Terminator earlier. But AI for you is a positive progression?
For how I use it, yes. I actually work for a tech company and we sell AI products and I am fully aware of the ethical issues. The landscape of machine learning has come on so rapidly. Scarily so. I’m not an expert but I work with experts and I don’t think there’s going to be a Skynet situation any time soon.
But the potential for nefarious use is very worrying – how people’s voices can be cloned, for instance, is terrifying. At the same time I’ve seen really cool stories about how AI can assist with cancer screening, for instance, at a way better accuracy than a human. So it’s saving lives. It’s a mixed bag isn’t it?
Massively. How about music? Would you consider, as a label owner, putting in a policy about having no AI music submitted to you?
That’s a good question. What level would you go to with that? We already use an element of AI in software already. I know of a producer who uses it to create automated loops with scripts and language he’s written as well. If it’s used as a creative part of the process then I am all for that. Being creative with technology is always interesting to me and that was a big part of drum & bass in the 90s. But if it’s a case of someone popping in a prompt like ‘do me an Optical sounding tune’ and sending over the results, then no, that definitely doesn’t sit right with me. So I haven’t thought about a policy or clause about AI but maybe labels should? This is the worrying thing about AI – people can’t legislate for it fast enough.
How about a policy on certain samples being used from a certain well known sample library? Hearing so many samey samey vocals in things…
I’m not sure. Those types of samples aren’t for me, for sure. But it’s sample culture isn’t it? There are so many conflicting rules and ideologies people have about it. Let’s take the idea of taking a full loop from a pretty obscure record you’ve dug out. That seems fine, right? But if you take a full loop out of a sample library where it’s been handed to you then it seems a bit less fine doesn’t it? But should it?
Minefield!
Yeah. Accessibility is at the centre of this. Production tools are so much easier now. I wouldn’t be producing now if I didn’t have Ableton at an affordable price. There’s no way I could have spent thousands on studio equipment back in the day so it’s hard to criticise.
True! Plus a lot of tunes sample the same sample CDs back in the day I guess. Valley Of The Shadows was one tune from a sample CD I think?
Yeah the arp and maybe even the drums and bass were from that CD.
The guitar lick on Bad Company’s Ladies Of Spain and Let Rip by John B is the same sample too…
Oh wow I didn’t know that? I used to play Ladies Of Spain a lot. Great tune.
Innit. Let’s talk about your tunes. The original Holographic Principle release was your debut solo EP wasn’t it?
Yeah I’d done guest spots here and there and collabs but yeah that was the first thing I’d done on my own in full. Until the last four or five years the majority of work I’d done before was with Wheeler. Life has taken over for him in other areas but thankfully I’ve been able to take things he’s taught me and expand on them and take things over the line on my own. That was a massive challenge for me but in recent years I feel I’ve got over the hump.
Such a nice feeling isn’t it? When the penny drops. On any discipline you’ve been learning – that moment when it feels less of a chore or less impossible!
Oh definitely. It’s about getting your process down and also confidence is a big part of it. Actually feeling like you can do it. I’ve recently done a tutorial style video. Well, more like a guide or walkthrough of one of my tracks, I guess. And rather than going super technical – because all of that information is out there anyway and a lot more detailed or higher spec than I can do – I talk a lot about the mindset of preparation and process and building a tune and seeing it through.
Actually finishing a tune!
Yeah. For me that was much more important because there are so many people who have incredible technical skills but they’re sitting on piles of WIPs. For me I want to finish the tune and get it out there. The whole process from having an idea to getting the record out, promoting it and playing it or seeing other DJs play it. That’s really exciting.
Yeah! So you ran Repertoire for years before you got to this stage as a producer… Do you think that’s had an influence on your need to see a tune through and finish it?
Maybe? I’m not sure. It’s definitely great when I get sent a demo and I work with the artist and give them feedback, and there is a bit of back and forth until we’re both happy and we release it on vinyl. That’s cool. But for me it was just something in my head around five years ago. I really wanted to learn Ableton and more about music theory. I felt I had a bit of a deficit there as someone who considers themselves to be a DJ and a raver first, and wanted to learn more about the science, I guess.
I mean it doesn’t have to be overly technical and sometimes we overthink that don’t we? Things don’t need to be overly technical. I’ll leave the mad inspiring earth-shattering stuff to artists like Krust.
Amen! Love the identification as a raver first and foremost too
Yeah. For instance when someone dramatically gives up production or DJing and they’ll make a big thing about it on Facebook. It’s like ‘hang on, surely you just get pleasure from this anyway? It’s still a passion, right?’ You get into it because you love it. I’ll always rave until my legs fall off. I’ll keep on mixing forever regardless of whether I get any bookings. It’s one of the most fun things you can do if you love this music. Just on a personal level.
100%!!! I think that separates the people who get into this and expect something in return and people who get into this purely because they have no other option – they love it so much.
I think so too. But everyone has their own intentions and ambitions don’t they? I feel like people are missing the point if they’re expecting purely financial gains. It’s always going to be short-lived.
Totally! So this mix. Tell us about it…
It’s a mixture of a lot of my own things. A bit of a retrospective of my productions from the last three or four years. A little bit from Holographic Vol 1, some from Holographic Vol 2. Some landmark things I did production wise like a remix of Foul Play on Over Shadow which was bizarre to do considering how legendary they are. And a couple of collaborations. Lots of new stuff. Unreleased and forthcoming. I don’t know how to hype it up any more than that.
That’s perfect hypeage. You mentioned new stuff. What’s coming next post-Holographic Principle Vol 2
For Repertoire, the next release is by Senses who used to be on Bassbin. He’s on a big comeback trail., I loved his stuff on Bassbin and was one of the main components of that drumfunk era alongside artists like Paradox and Fracture and Neptune. He’s back with another EP with us. We’ve got R-WHITES Vol 5 coming out which has been a really successful series for us. If you know R-WHITES you’ll know that it’s more of a retro throwback to the classic jungle sounds. I want Repertoire to have a futurist edge. A trail where you can trace it back to its roots but always looking ahead and not dwelling on the past like a 95 jungle rinse. So R-WHITES is a place for those more retro sounds.
Yeah totally. Tying it back to Holographic Principle Vol 2, having Dead Man’s Chest on the EP is a vibe. He’s excellent at reflecting on the roots while looking ahead.
Yeah Alex never sounds like he’s back in 95 but his sound definitely celebrates that foundation. I can never quite put my finger on how he does that. It’s obviously nodding towards retro but he’s got his own sound. His remix is a very stripped back jungle Amen thing which is a nice contrast to the rest of the EP. Production wise I wanted this series to be quite glossy. A lot of synths, a lot of melodies and cleanness in the drums, and a lot of space. It’s not how I normally produce but how I want this series to feel. I’m really happy with how it turned out…
Law – The Holographic Principle Vol 2 is out now on Repertoire
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Tracklist
01. Law – Cold Soul – Repertoire
02. Law & Wheeler – So Many Tears – Rupture LDN
03. Law – Approach With Caution – Unreleased
04. Poisonfrog x Ben Repertoire – Life Limits – Repertoire
05. Law – Six Below – Curvature [forthcoming]
06. Law – Out Of Luck – Beyond Electronix
07. Law, Ben Repertoire & RUNDR – 36 Views – R-WHITES
08. Law – Patterns – Rupture LDN
09. Law – Holographic – Repertoire
10. Mani Festo – Next 2 U – Repertoire
11. Modal – Lost Visions (Law ’96 Flip) – Repertoire [forthcoming]
12. Senses – The Rumbling – Repertoire [forthcoming]
13. Foul Play – Find The Way (Law Remix) – Over/Shadow
14. Law – Untitled Destiny – Repertoire
15. Law – Luv Hurts – AKO 10
16. Ricky Force – So Good – Repertoire
17. Sourpuss x Law – ??? – Unreleased
18. Concealed Identity – Vimana – Repertoire
